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Post by 338d on Sept 22, 2014 21:10:17 GMT -6
Mark I completly understand the driving the lomg distance to race VS the payout thing and that's why I don't make it to Benton often even though I really enjoy racing there. Gateway has a steady car count where they could guarantee the 1000 to win every week, but if they do that I promise, that then you will here people complaning that there are 60 cars 1st round and they didn't increase the payout. That is the one thing I like on the tier is that it doesn't take hardly any cars to pay 1000, but also there is the opportunity to have a bigger payout. The biggest gripe I have is that they took money away this year from their largest class they have week in and week out to increase the payout in another and it didn't work. Anyway we would love to see you come racing with us more Mark!
Clay
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sc583
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by sc583 on Sept 22, 2014 21:59:14 GMT -6
Scott I think you are exactly right. I think gateway could pay $2k to win and the weekly participation wouldn't change that much, maybe increase 5-10 entries. The reason I say this is mainly because the supply of tracks currently outweighs the demand so the majority of guys will stay close to home due to the pressures of money. Then there are the secondary issues with gateway not being very racer friendly and 1/4 mile being a deterrent too.
Me personally I would probably support gateway more if they ran 1/8 only and payout was better, but I don't race that often anymore (probably only avg once every month the past two seasons), so big payouts or season pts payouts wouldn't sway my decision to support or not. Would probably sway others more than me.
That said, if gateway had affordable big bucks races I would definitely support. Something like the old mega bucks races or a smaller version of tenn tuck (maybe 5-5k races over three days for $100 each) or maybe something simple like Clay City does where they have 3 affordable 3k races over 2 days with a couple of hi roller shootout races mixed in (ie see their ken mor race flyer). Problem with this plan is gateway can't do these type of races because they have self inflicted themselves with too much overhead cost so they have to overcharge and pro-rate their payouts to insulate themselves from the unneeded costs they have brought on themselves and expect the racers to pay for.
With all that said, I maintain the long term viability of weekly racing will one day come down to combo races. It seems to be working with great success up north.
Again, just my opinions.
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Post by dennismopar73 on Sept 23, 2014 6:20:54 GMT -6
I think we are all getting older and the new young blood has no desire no roots to continue drag racing in the heritage it was born upon. The 1/8 vs1/4 debate is a mute point because GMP has always had a 1/8 program even in its Dover days and payouts was there and some participation was great largely due to guy doubling over racing both due to such great day of large payout but those days are long gone , racers have left the sport , or passed away . I know some Of you guys will say its because GMP wont support it on a continued base . Well this year it was for a points run altho it wasnt to go to Indy but will have its awards at the bangquet to those who entered it Indy according to most is not why they run ?? Its the money??? Well. S- pro has the beat payout of any class and yet the worse attended of any class Lets also say to the winners there was comtengizy (?) prizes given to winners in classes , oo lets not forget the beer give away so even all that hasnt swayed racers to come! The debate of combo class racing would be a quicker death of the track!! GMP has tried n failed at having races whether it be no info early which is funny because back in the day we disnt have hardly any info yoi just loaded up your car and went racing even if it looked like rain Now we have racers who look at weather a month ahead and wont pull their prized possession from fully inclosed stacker 48 ft gooseneck if dew on lillies
I kust think racers have become a bunch of winnee , spoiled wishie washer children who if aint thier way its no way And a few who want it a certain way or bitch n complain because it should be done. In way thats good for them And screw everything drag racing was built upon !!
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Post by bracketracing on Sept 23, 2014 8:27:37 GMT -6
I think we are all getting older and the new young blood has no desire no roots to continue drag racing in the heritage it was born upon. The 1/8 vs1/4 debate is a mute point because GMP has always had a 1/8 program even in its Dover days and payouts was there and some participation was great largely due to guy doubling over racing both due to such great day of large payout but those days are long gone , racers have left the sport , or passed away . I know some Of you guys will say its because GMP wont support it on a continued base . Well this year it was for a points run altho it wasnt to go to Indy but will have its awards at the bangquet to those who entered it Indy according to most is not why they run ?? Its the money??? Well. S- pro has the beat payout of any class and yet the worse attended of any class Lets also say to the winners there was comtengizy (?) prizes given to winners in classes , oo lets not forget the beer give away so even all that hasnt swayed racers to come! The debate of combo class racing would be a quicker death of the track!! GMP has tried n failed at having races whether it be no info early which is funny because back in the day we disnt have hardly any info yoi just loaded up your car and went racing even if it looked like rain Now we have racers who look at weather a month ahead and wont pull their prized possession from fully inclosed stacker 48 ft gooseneck if dew on lillies I kust think racers have become a bunch of winnee , spoiled wishie washer children who if aint thier way its no way And a few who want it a certain way or bitch n complain because it should be done. In way thats good for them And screw everything drag racing was built upon !! Blah blah blah Dennis points have been in 1/8 before this year I've been fortunate enough to get awards in both many times. Not this year I sucked. When we had a great 1/8 program entry was higher payout was higher and 75-100 cars was the norm
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Post by drphillips309 on Sept 23, 2014 8:53:09 GMT -6
Dennis mite be correct on the spoiled thing. I did get spoiled . I cut my teeth in the late 1990s here at gateway when the hardest working guy ever worked at the track he got me a check for $2,000 back in 1999 for winning the pro championship plus a shot at a new trailer he didn't worry about Facebook this guy got sponsors for US! The show, the CUSTOMER! He would fall asleep on the tractor from working all day and all night . So yes I'm spoiled he gave us a shot at 50k for a $600 entry . And packed tge place every week for 2k and had a racer meeting once a month and got sh$t done. Some didn't like him but most did because they respected the man. That's why I'm spoiled .
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Post by eticket on Sept 23, 2014 10:35:52 GMT -6
I agree we or at least I am getting much older and the younger kids just have way to many other distractions that compete with drag racing as opposed to when I started (late 60's) or even when my son started. Which is why as we get older they are not stepping in to keep the car counts up. For me it has never been about the money, 1/8 or 1/4 etc. Just always wanted to go fast. If money was the issue I surely would not have built the car we did. Yes I'm spoiled when it gets to hot I'm a wienie and opt for the a/c and yes I miss the short drive from Troy to MAR. What I really do miss is the old MAR family atmosphere. Maybe we or me are looking back at times and remembering things that we wish were still around. The fact of the matter is you can't go back you just need to deal with current conditions, good, bad or indifferent and make a choice to be happy that we have a good place to race or sit on the front porch and grinch about how bad it has gotten. I for one will make the best of it and hope to do more the rest of this year and next and quite being a 1-pass wonder.
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Post by 338d on Sept 23, 2014 10:37:23 GMT -6
Dennis mite be correct on the spoiled thing. I did get spoiled . I cut my teeth in the late 1990s here at gateway when the hardest working guy ever worked at the track he got me a check for $2,000 back in 1999 for winning the pro championship plus a shot at a new trailer he didn't worry about Facebook this guy got sponsors for US! The show, the CUSTOMER! He would fall asleep on the tractor from working all day and all night . So yes I'm spoiled he gave us a shot at 50k for a $600 entry . And packed tge place every week for 2k and had a racer meeting once a month and got sh$t done. Some didn't like him but most did because they respected the man. That's why I'm spoiled . Yes he worked hard Jason and he built Gateway to having next to Norwalk the next best weekly program anywhere and we had large car counts then. Heck back then it was tough to finish in the top 20 in points and probably had 50 cars signed up for the points series in each class. All he did was show that it can be done if you want it too! I could be wrong, but I still think you could do it again with some effort.
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sc583
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by sc583 on Sept 23, 2014 11:14:06 GMT -6
While I agree the 1/8 mile 2k races used to generate a lot of interest you have to remember a few factors as to why that was...
1) Originally it was on Friday night and had no competition from other tracks 2) When those 2k races were at their peak, Netherton owned I57 and SDS hadn't completed their renovation. 3) There was no Harrisburg, Beacon or Bonne Terre back then competing for the same business. 4) The height of the 2k races popularity was pre - recession and pre-$4.00/gal diesel. Even at the end, those 2k races were struggling to get 40 cars.
Good or bad the current racing economy is all about value and bang for the buck. I'm sure Jeremy can attest the same as me that in our travels the last few years (ie we usually travel to 8-12 tracks in a season) racers are just more budget conscious, or as some would say, more spoiled than before. For example, I went to a 10k/5k at Middle Tenn that had a steep entry fee but was two races in 1 day and a non - guaranteed purse in July and only 40 cars showed up. Racers didn't see value in that race during that time of the year. Conversely we went to the Memphis 50k race in Sept, which was a horrible payback to entry ratio but it was well attended. My guess is people saw value for 4 races over 3 days in the cooler Sept month. Another is the Clay City race I mentioned in my other post. They had 300 cars show up for that race. A low entry, top heavy purse where a guy could race 4 races in 2 days. You could also point to successes of Lukes race or Muncie's races or Byron's races and you'll see a common thread.
My point is the cars are out there but the racers have to see value as well. Unfortunately the way gateway has setup their business model they have two options to turn a profit...1) Offer a competitive program and rely on volume and hope that volume makes a profit or 2) go the less risky route and charge a high price to enter and tier the payout. In my opinion plotting out a $80 to enter 2k race is not going to bring 80 cars in each week, but there may be other races that may. Either way what's the definition of insanity? The tracks that are successful, and will be successful are the ones that continue to be creative and adapt and don't just blame their troubles on the racers.
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sc583
Junior Member
Posts: 60
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Post by sc583 on Sept 23, 2014 11:18:59 GMT -6
Oh and the biggest issue, bigger than payout, is to treat the racer with respect and courtesy. In all the different tracks we go to each year, by far, Gateway is the least racer friendly track and that reputation is out there and exists. That mantra will have to be fixed before you see cars come back. That starts at mgmt and trickles down to most of their employees.
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Post by jeremy341a on Sept 23, 2014 12:04:48 GMT -6
I agree with Mark the low car count isn't mainly about the payouts. IMO the payouts do affect it but only on a small scale. Those that choose not to race use that as their "excuse." Harrisburg is a nice track and they were guaranteeing $1500 to win and still didn't get the cars. I-58 guarantees 1k and has had under 20 a few times this year I have been told. A consistent program would help gateway a lot. You never know which classes will be running, if there will be buybacks or not, if spots will be held, when you can get into the track til, etc. Also when you tell racers that if they don't like it go race somewhere else eventually they will.
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Post by 338d on Sept 23, 2014 13:55:22 GMT -6
I agree with Mark the low car count isn't mainly about the payouts. IMO the payouts do affect it but only on a small scale. Those that choose not to race use that as their "excuse." Harrisburg is a nice track and they were guaranteeing $1500 to win and still didn't get the cars. I-58 guarantees 1k and has had under 20 a few times this year I have been told. A consistent program would help gateway a lot. You never know which classes will be running, if there will be buybacks or not, if spots will be held, when you can get into the track til, etc. Also when you tell racers that if they don't like it go race somewhere else eventually they will. This phrase has been used a lot towards several racers in the last couple months and is very bad business. Mark, I agree with everything you have said and yes they have the potential, but they need to be creative and want to make it work.
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Post by dennismopar73 on Sept 23, 2014 16:16:47 GMT -6
I can not imagine anyone let alone management telling someone let alone several times to go race else where!!! If someone had told me that which i have never heard that what you said happened Mr Francis would be my very next call !! Along with whom ever that was there at the time it was said ! If Chris said it then he should be removed
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Post by nice4thgenz on Sept 23, 2014 16:27:19 GMT -6
I agree with Mark the low car count isn't mainly about the payouts. IMO the payouts do affect it but only on a small scale. Those that choose not to race use that as their "excuse." Harrisburg is a nice track and they were guaranteeing $1500 to win and still didn't get the cars. I-58 guarantees 1k and has had under 20 a few times this year I have been told. A consistent program would help gateway a lot. You never know which classes will be running, if there will be buybacks or not, if spots will be held, when you can get into the track til, etc. Also when you tell racers that if they don't like it go race somewhere else eventually they will. They paid the full payout sat night, because it was packed. I ran box and no box with nothing but jr's in between the classes, it was nuts. Then we stayed for Sunday and saw that the count was going to be close so we just ran box. They never announced anything about payouts until my dad went up to get money and they decided to only pay back 3 spots btw lost in box by 0006 mov.. car wasn't even to my bumper when I crossed the stripe
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Post by Crossbones Dennis on Sept 28, 2014 19:39:51 GMT -6
Dennis mite be correct on the spoiled thing. I did get spoiled . I cut my teeth in the late 1990s here at gateway when the hardest working guy ever worked at the track he got me a check for $2,000 back in 1999 for winning the pro championship plus a shot at a new trailer he didn't worry about Facebook this guy got sponsors for US! The show, the CUSTOMER! He would fall asleep on the tractor from working all day and all night . So yes I'm spoiled he gave us a shot at 50k for a $600 entry . And packed tge place every week for 2k and had a racer meeting once a month and got sh$t done. Some didn't like him but most did because they respected the man. That's why I'm spoiled . From what I understand he got things done because some of it was under the table deals. There was a lawsuit over the trailer in pro. A lot of those races lost money and there was an issue of where all the cash was going. For instance the buy backs were hand written on a sheet of paper with no receipts. GIR may have never seen their cut of the gamblers races. Do you really think if a guy was making money for a company hand over fist they would push him out the door? There is more that I do know that I can't post here. Ask me at the track sometime.
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Post by SENIOR on Sept 29, 2014 7:41:17 GMT -6
"Water under the bridge" !
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