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Post by wood338p on Jul 15, 2013 10:51:46 GMT -6
My .02 is they need to be out of the car. But like someone said, it's easy enough for a determined person to hide a legit one and just pull out a decoy. In our old car you could have it out in about 15-20 seconds.
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Post by chad378t on Jul 15, 2013 14:10:41 GMT -6
I have no tolerance for cheaters. I got beat by Doug Graff at indy in 1995 (Pro) . He couldn't make the Gateway team as a S/P car and decided to mount his box inside the 2nd battery box. He was using the dimmer switch on the floor to activate it. They only found it when his car went dead. To this day I consider him a lowlife POS. I agree with you Rick. BOXES SHOULD BE REMOVED. There are so many easy plugs on the market today that makes wiring a snap. If you want to run a class....you should be willing to make the required changes to meet the rules of said class. Period. Too much temptation having that baby sitiing right next to you. my $.02 Never heard that story before. The battery box thing is an old trick used by others years ago. Don't think you like Doug very much. Hard to explain but I was 19 and worked my tail off as a grunt in nasty & dangerous Fabrication shop just to pay my way to the track. First fulltime year racing and Indy was such a huge goal....racing the best of best. I won round one and got to see me team cheer as I came bock on the return road. Still one of my best memories. To have someone that desperate to blatently cheat me and 4-5 other drivers before he was caught....yeah I have issues with him. Cheaters don't think about what they may really be taking away. I know the dude has no idea who I am but if he ever came up and apologized for his mistake. I could forgive and forget. Until then, I stand by what I said...
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Post by p518 on Jul 15, 2013 14:28:41 GMT -6
Never heard that story before. The battery box thing is an old trick used by others years ago. Don't think you like Doug very much. Hard to explain but I was 19 and worked my tail off as a grunt in nasty & dangerous Fabrication shop just to pay my way to the track. First fulltime year racing and Indy was such a huge goal....racing the best of best. I won round one and got to see me team cheer as I came bock on the return road. Still one of my best memories. To have someone that desperate to blatently cheat me and 4-5 other drivers before he was caught....yeah I have issues with him. Cheaters don't think about what they may really be taking away. I know the dude has no idea who I am but if he ever came up and apologized for his mistake. I could forgive and forget. Until then, I stand by what I said... I'm certainly good with what you have said. The Indy. Bracket Finals are a big deal whether you're 19 or 59. I just had never heard of anyone from Gateway getting caught cheating at Indy. They certainly have been caught at Gateway. But, that was when Keith Gray was still around. I trust your story and it sounds like you are a better person than most. Also, you are correct about how cheaters affect others in many different ways. I was just teasing with the 'Doug' comment.
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Post by 338d on Jul 15, 2013 14:33:14 GMT -6
As for pro, street, etc, Boxes should not be in the car period,! What I really like is guys who take a box out of the car,put that one one the car for everyone to see, but leave the box they use in!! If any track is not looking or has never looked at a car the level of cheating is huge and more than anyone thinks! What is sad ids everyone knows who is cheating, not following the rules!! Dennis I find this statement kind of disturbing seems we are running at the same track on a weekly basis. If you actually know someone is cheating than you need to talk with Bob, because by not saying something is almost as bad. My opinion is that if someone is caught you are done for ever no question asked! It is hard enough to do this financially and to have someone cheating like this is stealing and it is also a good way for someone to hurt. I don't get to run there often, but know the track has a lot of good people there and if this was the case at Havana this weekend I hope they address it properly. And on the Doug Graf deal I am suprised if this took place that he would ever be able to race at the bracket finals again. NHRA suspends people for this stuff and Graf was never suspended. Clay,
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Post by bracketracing on Jul 15, 2013 15:21:27 GMT -6
And he has won the race of champions in s/p
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Post by scottwoodmancy on Jul 15, 2013 15:45:04 GMT -6
unfortunately cheaters will always find a way to cheat, you have to make penalty so severe that the risk does not justify the means. I don't think any race track can say 100% that there is no cheating going on their track and track officials can only do so much so its really up to everybody to keep your eyes open and if you suspect someone is cheating report them to track officials and let them take care of it. random checks are a good way to help keep people honest but the hardcore cheaters will probably always find a way
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Post by dennismopar73 on Jul 15, 2013 15:47:27 GMT -6
My statement is pretty general for a reason! If a track never checks, then the ability for cheating is out there, and being used!! It is very hard to see them using buttons any ways ,as most all ready have T brakes! It is sad to think that the class we run in Clay that any of the ones we know would.( ??) I sat in the stands for a long time,and I was close to the start line, I race a totally free electronic car! I foot brake it , I shift it, All I have is a line lock. You can bet one thing,,, When I get proof that someone is using a box in Pro, Bob will not be the only one I tell!! One thing is for sure,talk does get around,!
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Post by probrd on Jul 15, 2013 15:49:36 GMT -6
[/quote]Dennis I find this statement kind of disturbing seems we are running at the same track on a weekly basis. If you actually know someone is cheating than you need to talk with Bob, because by not saying something is almost as bad. My opinion is that if someone is caught you are done for ever no question asked! It is hard enough to do this financially and to have someone cheating like this is stealing and it is also a good way for someone to hurt. I don't get to run there often, but know the track has a lot of good people there and if this was the case at Havana this weekend I hope they address it properly. And on the Doug Graf deal I am suprised if this took place that he would ever be able to race at the bracket finals again. NHRA suspends people for this stuff and Graf was never suspended.
Clay,[/quote]
Clay, As of right now I believe the only thing that has happenned to the racer is he was disqualified for the night. It doesn't do any good for the racers he beat the first three rounds (or previous weeks) and I don't know if the guy he beat in the 3rd round, when he was caught, was reinstated or not. From the way the track rules are written that's all they can do to him this time. If he does it again all that happens is he loses his track points. BIG DEAL, so he loses his points, he's 17th, what's it matter to him. I think this rule needs to CHANGE! I was actually being a little lenient in my first post. I agree with all the others, cheaters should be banned. Period.
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Post by 338d on Jul 15, 2013 16:46:44 GMT -6
Rick that is a bad deal. There should be zero tolerance. Like Dennis said a couple above this that people talk and the word gets out. This will make some not want to come. By the way you need to come visit us at Gateway some night, the last few races have paid 1100 to win and paid back to the 1/16 finalist. (yep that's 17-32 cars)
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Post by problemchild on Jul 15, 2013 20:10:49 GMT -6
I don't know who was caught, but have some in mind.
the problem with reporting some one is cheating to the track is the track may tell you "THAT CAR IS NOT CHEATING" and never even check their car.
it is very easy to check to see if a car is equiped with a box, just follow the leads coming for the trans brake up to the button. one lead will go to ground while the other goes to the button for power. if it does not go to the button it will lead you to the box. some tech people are not electrical engineers, but that should not be rocket science.
just my $.02
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Post by 338d on Jul 15, 2013 20:46:16 GMT -6
One more thing to remember is this is the same track that said a racer was cheating last year and did not pay him his money, plus asked him to not come back! So they do this last year and then turn around this year and when someone truly gets caught they slap them on the hand. NOT GOOD!
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Post by problemchild on Jul 15, 2013 20:58:57 GMT -6
Different manager this year.
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Post by bobg on Jul 15, 2013 21:09:10 GMT -6
Sometimes it's not quite that simple, some racers can be pretty crafty if they intend on cheating. I've heard where the delay button on the steering wheel may only be a part of a second button that can control a hidden box. I've seen devices hidden in empty MSD boxes I've seen light activated devices that release the button controlled by the LED bulbs on the tree. That's why NHRA put flood lights on each side of the A board in the middle aimed back at the car.
Remote control by light activation was a common thing for a while, today microwaves just like the remote on your TV or garage door opener can work wonders from outside the car. I don't know if it will work or not but i've heard of lazer pointers by aimed by a racers buddy at the other guys finish line infered so to break the other racer out... chances are no one would ever see the red dot. The problem with finding a devise at the track is that most tracks don't have the tools or means or area to tear a car down.
Plus the track officials can't just pick a guy out just because he's good on the tree, it takes everyone to keep track of whats going on and someone has to file a protest. The original way to file a protest is a racer or racers have to post a protest fee (lets say $100.00)and if nothing is found the protested racer gets to keep the fee, If the racer is found to be in violation the protester gets his fee back and the cheater gets banned.
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Post by bobg on Jul 15, 2013 21:19:48 GMT -6
In my opinion NHRA was dead wrong for allowing adjustable delay buttons in the Pro Class. An adjustable delay button is a drivers aid just like a delay box.... I know it's not the same but the concept is the same. It should be a ON/OFF micro switch.
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Post by probrd on Jul 15, 2013 22:27:13 GMT -6
NHRA takes it little more serious and the et rules refer to this section also. Here is the rule on the discovery of an illegal delay device used during an event:
Further, discovery of a delay device, adjustable or non-adjustable, at any time following pre-event technical inspection will be grounds for immediate disqualification from the event, loss of all NHRA Mello Yello Drag Racing Series points for the season, and suspension from all NHRA Championship Drag Racing events for remainder of season. Additional penalties may be imposed at the discretion of NHRA.
Rules cut and pasted from a few of the tracks around this area.
Lyons rule on delay boxes in no-box classes: 49. Cars competing in pro must not have a delay box in their car. If they are running Super Pro and Pro the delay box must be removed for every pass in Pro including time trials.
Cordova's rule: 1.Delay boxes prohibited, and MUST be removed from the car. Use of a delay box will result in disciplinary action, up to permanent suspension. Protest procedures are outlined in the current NHRA rulebook, which will be the ultimate authority in any such protest.
I-57's rules: 1. No Delay Box in car (no exceptions)
Great Lakes Dragway: PRO (No-Box)—only a trans bake and/or two step rev. limiters are allowed. No throttle devices, BOXES MUST BE REMOVED!
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