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Post by 69b1dart on Jun 6, 2012 8:11:37 GMT -6
if the track is trying to save money,by going outlaw,maybe they can make track improvements and more money in the racers pockets with higher payouts
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Post by bantam32 on Jun 6, 2012 8:18:23 GMT -6
They call it outlaw for a reason. No rules, no safety, no responsibility. If someone wants to kill themselves in a POS that is their problem BUT... when they cross the center line and take me or my kid out it's a whole new problem. Everyone get a history book and remember why NHRA was founded in the first place. WELL SAID !
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Post by bobg on Jun 6, 2012 8:22:49 GMT -6
The yearly NHRA sanction fee's are not that much.... aprox $1200.00 a year But NHRA requires the track to have insurance that is aprox $495.00 each race day.
Now if they drop the sanction and go non insured they would save a ton of money but that's risky and I can't see Frank allowing the track to be non insured.
Just being non sanctioned might up the car count. Yes NHRA was founded on safety back in the 50's but it's all about the dollar now.
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Post by dragracer on Jun 6, 2012 8:51:46 GMT -6
To be fair this whole safety debate is based on conjecture. You shouldn't convict people for the crimes of their forefathers anymore than you should be ready to hang CID for the transgressions of other tracks. I'm sure there are some horribly unsafe outlaw tracks out there but that doesn't mean they will all automatically fall that direction. Tech is only as safe as the person doing the inspections. I don't believe there is currently anybody coming down from NHRA to double check the tech guy and make sure he is doing his job competently and its my understanding CID would adopt all NHRA safety guidelines and rules so I don't see safety being an issue any further than management will let it be, which happens to be the case at most any track sanctioned or not.
I'm going to actually agree with Bob on this one, surprised? Yeah me too! Insurance is a big deal but if that's taken care of, which I can't believe it wouldn't be, then I see no other reason to stay NHRA unless people have a diehard desire to go to Indy. I also believe this is why IHRA was also offered, kind of a compromise between the people who want to be sanctioned and the people who don't want to pay outrageous NHRA fees. Are there any issues with going IHRA?
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Post by owenjack on Jun 6, 2012 10:04:22 GMT -6
I have to pull out my rule book and explain the rules to the tech guy everytime I race. I can't see tech getting much worse UNLESS the rules were created to increase car counts at the expense of safety. If the primary mission of inspections shifts from safety to car counts we are all in trouble.
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Post by stevemaas on Jun 6, 2012 10:49:59 GMT -6
Enter At Your Own Risk!! If I ever see that sign at Havana, you can bet, I will turn around and not race there! Bantam32 is 100% correct! (quote); Being an outlaw track doesnt mean cars wont go through the same scrutiny as a sanctioned track. Im sure cars will have to meet the same requirements as a sanctioned track. Bullshzzz!! ' I57 inspection , does your car start in gear??? EVERYONE SAYS,,,,,'NOPE'!! YOUR GOOD TO GO!! TERRA HAUTE IND, Where is tech?, 'Ooo your on the honor system here!! Bring in any old peice of crap you want to race, leaking oil, no wheel studs , slicks in cords, fuel line of rubber, no helmet, no bars in cars , no cages in car that at min should have at least a roll bar!! I have seen it all in these 'OUTLAW' tracks , Yeah there is a few out there that may not do that , but very few, ! You can say well that wont happen here, but guess what?? Over time it will!! PRETTY SOON YOU HAVE A TRACK THAT'S AS RUN DOWN AS THE CARS THAT RUN THERE TOO! Then after couple years, you can look back say, :Man what happened to nice track, I remember when!! I have been to NHRA tracks where there was no tech period. Just cause it has the mighty "NHRA" stamp on the track doesnt mean squat.
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Post by bobg on Jun 6, 2012 11:06:49 GMT -6
If the track is going to switch to IHRA then the sanction fee's will still be paid out by the track... so... The question is, Why switch? What reason would you have to go to another sanction? The IHRA additional insurance program isn't as good as NHRA's. The IHRA Bracket Finals are in Michigan.
I can understand going non sanction. Jack, Non sanction don't mean "Outlaw" I'm sure the track will adopt the NHRA Rule Book and things will pretty much remain the same. The Tech guy will still know as much as he did when the place was NHRA It's just that the track won't have it's back up against the wall when it comes to rule enforcement to the letter. Tech would most likely not change but the tech official could use his judgement when it comes to if something passes or not or if it's safe in his opinion.
As far as car count, a non sanctioned track may pull more cars because some racers build their car to run non sanctioned tracks. for example, A guy builds a nice S/Pro dragster but he's dead set he isn't paying NHRA $150.00 for a sticker so he only runs non sanctioned tracks, Same guy has a glide in his car but the trans shield sticker is out of date, the shield is in perfect condition with all of the brackets and bolts. This same guy is over 50 years old in good health but NHRA requires a EKG when he gets his physical for his license so his exam is more expensive. This all adds up. It's not about running junk or unsafe cars. some racers are just getting tired of putting money out everytime they turn around. The main thing is that the track keeps the race insurance, adopts safety rules, cleans and preps the track properly and has reasonable tech inspections.
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Post by dennismopar73 on Jun 6, 2012 11:37:11 GMT -6
If the track is going to switch to IHRA then the sanction fee's will still be paid out by the track... so... The question is, Why switch? What reason would you have to go to another sanction? The IHRA additional insurance program isn't as good as NHRA's. The IHRA Bracket Finals are in Michigan. I can understand going non sanction. Jack, Non sanction don't mean "Outlaw" I'm sure the track will adopt the NHRA Rule Book and things will pretty much remain the same. The Tech guy will still know as much as he did when the place was NHRA It's just that the track won't have it's back up against the wall when it comes to rule enforcement to the letter. Tech would most likely not change but the tech official could use his judgement when it comes to if something passes or not or if it's safe in his opinion. As far as car count, a non sanctioned track may pull more cars because some racers build their car to run non sanctioned tracks. for example, A guy builds a nice S/Pro dragster but he's dead set he isn't paying NHRA $150.00 for a sticker so he only runs non sanctioned tracks, Same guy has a glide in his car but the trans shield sticker is out of date, the shield is in perfect condition with all of the brackets and bolts. This same guy is over 50 years old in good health but NHRA requires a EKG when he gets his physical for his license so his exam is more expensive. This all adds up. It's not about running junk or unsafe cars. some racers are just getting tired of putting money out everytime they turn around. The main thing is that the track keeps the race insurance, adopts safety rules, cleans and preps the track properly and has reasonable tech inspections. Let see, Nhra Isn't the ones who sets dates on items, Most items are of a 5 year nature, Balancers ,flexplates, shields,,etc except for belts! helmets ??10 years!! 5YEARS!!, lot of wear tear, blow ups, accidents! motor changes, more hp built thru them years , you guys run them til blow thru you floor boards!! 150 for 3 years on cert, on the chassies, come on some of these arguments do not hold any water,! Everyone just want to race as cheap as possiable ,but safety has to remain high As for the tech guy not doing his job, fire him before he gets you into lawsuit that the track wont survive!! The good of the sport must be that we look at what matters the most, If you want to run all out , with the rules out the window then a hearse needs to parked at the end of the strip, not ambulance!
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Post by 69b1dart on Jun 6, 2012 13:09:25 GMT -6
george rays is a enter at your own risk,cid was ihra at the beginning of last year but dropped them or somethink happen to that,need a ekg at the age of 55,if you want to get a lic
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Post by bantam32 on Jun 6, 2012 13:17:39 GMT -6
If the track is going to switch to IHRA then the sanction fee's will still be paid out by the track... so... The question is, Why switch? What reason would you have to go to another sanction? The IHRA additional insurance program isn't as good as NHRA's. The IHRA Bracket Finals are in Michigan. I can understand going non sanction. Jack, Non sanction don't mean "Outlaw" I'm sure the track will adopt the NHRA Rule Book and things will pretty much remain the same. The Tech guy will still know as much as he did when the place was NHRA It's just that the track won't have it's back up against the wall when it comes to rule enforcement to the letter. Tech would most likely not change but the tech official could use his judgement when it comes to if something passes or not or if it's safe in his opinion. As far as car count, a non sanctioned track may pull more cars because some racers build their car to run non sanctioned tracks. for example, A guy builds a nice S/Pro dragster but he's dead set he isn't paying NHRA $150.00 for a sticker so he only runs non sanctioned tracks, Same guy has a glide in his car but the trans shield sticker is out of date, the shield is in perfect condition with all of the brackets and bolts. This same guy is over 50 years old in good health but NHRA requires a EKG when he gets his physical for his license so his exam is more expensive. This all adds up. It's not about running junk or unsafe cars. some racers are just getting tired of putting money out everytime they turn around. The main thing is that the track keeps the race insurance, adopts safety rules, cleans and preps the track properly and has reasonable tech inspections. Bob I agree with what you say to a point,WHAT THE HELL IS ANOTHER 150.00 FOR A NHRA STICKER WHEN A GUY IS BUILDING A RACECAR ! LOL !Why would a person NOT keep a car up to date anyway,By keeping you car updated That means to me you should never ever have a problem passing tech anywhere you go.Why would a person "limit" themselves to just one track ? I truthfully believe that if a car is all current on the specs that is one heck of a selling point if a person ever had to get out of racing,Buying a car that is out of date is really not a deal if you think about what your going to spend to make it legal.And to be truthfull drag racing IS NOT a cheap hobby or sport period.So again I believe NHRA is making it tough on a local level not to spend money to meet safety specs,Now the big question is is it to 'Keep the Junk out and the people who really cant afford racing or is it to MAKE More money ? You decide but I believe its BOTH ! And when car counts go up on a non sanctioned track that makes me believe the is a bunch of cars that are out of spec racing on the track.
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Post by dragracer on Jun 6, 2012 13:37:00 GMT -6
The reason for switching to IHRA isn't to save the track a ton of money(although it might save them some!), going that route would be more for the racer. What's an NHRA membership fee, $69 plus another $50 for a number for one year? Whereas IHRA, isn't that about $60 for both membership and a number for one year? Not to mention lower ET for licensing requirements among other things. Of course the license then restricts you from running NHRA tracks so many people would then have to hold dual licenses, that could be a deal breaker. Something to think about. I'm game however they want to roll but if they go outlaw I hope the payouts get better. As for the tech guy not doing his job, fire him before he gets you into lawsuit that the track wont survive!! dennismopar73 - are you referring the tech guy from the 2011 season? He's not working there anymore.
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Post by bantam32 on Jun 6, 2012 15:06:40 GMT -6
So are we as racers thinking thats if C.I.D. goes non sanctioned the payout will increase because of car count ? Hmmm, I would think if anything insurance would be cheaper if the track was sanctioned.Let's face it times are tough all over for racer and track owners,I believe by supporting your local track and bringing in more spectators would definatley persuade the tracks to pay out more,but I think in reality unless its a Big event spectator wise and racer count along with a high entry fee I really dont think a track will have a high dollar weekley payout like the good old days.Tracks have a TON of overhead trust me Ive been in the promoters shoes before and Its not easy.Being a racer and being on the inside its easy to rip on the track owners and management,lots of long days I really think you have to like the job and people alot to take all the greif,but thats what you get by being a track owner.I really believe the owners are on our side,cause without us they would be hurting for business
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Post by hunter5050 on Jun 6, 2012 15:16:39 GMT -6
i think everybody is jumping the gun a little bit.i missed the meeting sunday ,but from what i heard it was just brought up for discussion,nothing wrote in stone and will not happen this year ,even if for some wild chance it even happens at all, i feel its not the write way to go.nhra insurance is there if needed/ask the harters if they pay up.ya i think nhra is greedy but they are the best saction period.and this from a guy/me that pays 3 nhra lisc fees and i have to have a ekg due to my stent in my heart.if anybody thought racing was a cheap HOBBY you better think again.there are a lot of loyal racers that want to go to div 3 at indy and then there are the jrs that want to go to there div 3 championship and bristol.if aint broke dont fix it
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Post by dragracer on Jun 6, 2012 15:52:04 GMT -6
I think this argument might be turning back into a discussion. I like where this is heading. I think its awesome the management of CID is looking for racer input into this situation. I know they don't have to, in the end its their business and their decision. As long as the track continues to be run well I'll have no problems racing there no matter where this leads. It would be interesting if someone would put up a poll and maybe include a 4th option of, I don't care lets just race.
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Post by rainmant366 on Jun 6, 2012 15:56:43 GMT -6
I personally keep my cars within the safety guidelines on all levels so I ,(a) can race ANYWHERE and (b)..... I don't really wanna die... I agree with a lot of points on here but my question on this topic is as follows.... If CID goes outlaw and follows NHRA rules and tech... Who is training the tech guy... Will that tech guy still be allowed to attend the required NHRA tech school to be a "certified tech guy" to know, follow and enforce the so called "we follow NHRA rules" technique that CID will follow..... I kinda doubt it... So therefore, you will have kids that "once liked drag racing " or the old guy that "used to be a racer" teching in cars ... And this would furthermore create more problems in the long run... I love outlaw tracks, I love NHRA tracks... If I can't afford safety... You will see me quit... Just sayin!!
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