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Post by dennismopar73 on Jun 5, 2012 11:54:22 GMT -6
it may be best to leave everything as it is for now, since things seem to finally be going smoothly. DING DING DING, WINNER!!
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Post by stevemaas on Jun 5, 2012 12:06:00 GMT -6
Well not place to say, just opinion of 'outlaw' tracks in general, safety tends to be the place to gets cut, 'honor systems may work til someone gets hurt, as for insurance thru NHRA, there are some good things that needs to be looked at before any great decision is reached!! How ever you feel about the NHRA, they are the best league to be in. jmo Being an outlaw track doesnt mean cars wont go through the same scrutiny as a sanctioned track. Im sure cars will have to meet the same requirements as a sanctioned track.
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george
Junior Member
Posts: 72
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Post by george on Jun 5, 2012 13:57:15 GMT -6
I'm interested in whatever can make things better,easier and more fun . Eliminating or changing sanctioning bodies is worth looking into BUT we all need to see the facts side by side.
It's things like guard rails and safety staff/equiptment that help me decide where we race.
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Post by p518 on Jun 5, 2012 14:03:18 GMT -6
Well not place to say, just opinion of 'outlaw' tracks in general, safety tends to be the place to gets cut, 'honor systems may work til someone gets hurt, as for insurance thru NHRA, there are some good things that needs to be looked at before any great decision is reached!! How ever you feel about the NHRA, they are the best league to be in. jmo The NHRA is a money-grubbing PITA. Their requirements for unnecessary, continual upgrades to a facility is another in the many reasons that Clem Vehige decided to shut down the old MAR many years ago. Outlaw tracks are not unsafe.
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Post by doughboy692 on Jun 5, 2012 15:52:06 GMT -6
Someone mentioned the NHRA insurance if you get hurt. It seems like a who cares deal untill you need it. About 15 years ago I was at a track in Ohio loading my car on the trailer as the night was over. The guy in the pit across from me was "Testing his Transbrake" when the throttle hung wide open. In a panic he let go of the button to turn the car off. Unfortunetly I was under the back of my car tieing it down on the trailer when he came flying across the pits. I ened up with broken legs and almost loosing my life. I little over 300K later in doctor bills I was back to work and living life again. I was self employeed at the time and had NO INSURANCE. NHRA's insurance paid it all. If I did not have that it would have ruined me financially and forced me to go bankrupt. That said I still race at outlaw tracks like Benton and love it but I do sometimes wonder what would happen if you got hurt at a outlaw deal.
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Post by p518 on Jun 5, 2012 18:04:15 GMT -6
Okay, so their insurance is good. That is really a big deal if you need it. Glad to see that they do help out when someone requires it.
I'm sorry to read about your injuries, but, am glad you recovered and the bills were taken care of by the NHRA.
This is an important story with a few good lessons tossed into it.
Keep racing... safe!
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Post by dennismopar73 on Jun 5, 2012 19:41:51 GMT -6
Like I said The only reason to go OUTLAW Would be to save money , And it always the safety part !!
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Post by problemchild on Jun 5, 2012 19:47:38 GMT -6
i bought a car back in feb that had run last year at benton, among other things that i found that needed to be changed, the belts had been in the car for 3 yrs, dated sept of 08. they look to be in good shape, so that is why i believe tech over looked the date. the chassis needed a change and the suspension as well, that's why the old car was back a couple of times. this winter i will have to put a new chassis between the front and rear suspension
what about the racers who want to run in the bracket finals at indy???
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Post by bobg on Jun 5, 2012 20:38:58 GMT -6
What is the reason for going Outlaw? Pro's & Cons "Outlaw Tracks" for the most part don't enforce the rules as much as a santioned track... No Chassis Certification or Competition License is needed, Expired SFI tags are not a real issue. More than not it's easier on a racers pocketbook when he don't have to buy new safety items every time he turns around just because a sticker expired. I'm not saying the cars are not safe, it's just that at an "Outlaw Track" the Tech Official determines if a car passes or not... You race if he considers your car safe to race.
NHRA charges aprox $1200.00 a season for sanction fee's Insurance costs through K&K is $495.00 each race day I'm sure the Insurance companies give a slightly better rate per race when your sanctioned because they know sanctioned tracks generally run by sanction rules where "Outlaw Tracks" sometime don't. As far as the primary insurance coverage, K&K (for example) pays all of the medical bills for an injured racer up to a point where the benefits run out then NHRA's insurance (secondary policy) takes over. That's the way it's been for years. DRAW will also help the racer with personal bills when a racer gets hurt on a sanctioned track but I'm not sure if they will help if the track is non sanctioned.
The issue is... if a racer gets injured and the primary Insurance benefits run out while he's in the Hospital, Who picks up the tab then if the track is "Outlaw"? If your the injured racer you do. If a racer is hurt bad or in the Burn Ward it don't take long for the primary benefits to run out.
The main issue is... IF the track goes "Outlaw" the racer must be aware if the track has race insurance each week. Outside of that the track being non sanctioned is not a real problem.
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Post by bantam32 on Jun 5, 2012 21:36:39 GMT -6
Number one is the "vote" coming from a "Bonified Source" ? And why are we changing anyway?Is this Franks,Gregs of who's decision or this is more drama ? One thing is for sure I realize the all mighty dollar is tight now with everbody,But I have spent a lot of money making sure my car and gear is 100% legal.HOW FAIR IS THAT SOME OTHER PERSON IS JUST SLIDING BY AND LYING ABOUT HOW LEGAL THERE CAR IS. Coming back to the sport and I have spent a Lot of cash making sure my car will pass AT ANY NHRA EVENT PERIOD ! I know S#$T CAN HAPPEN I KNOW THIS but I think Outlaw is not the way to go.If you can;t afford the right gear and your car cant pass tech Stay home,Gee saftey or a part to go faster we all know the answer to that one ! I respect everypersons opinions But I believe NHRA has plenty of reasons why they tech cars the way they do.To be as safe as possible
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Post by dennismopar73 on Jun 6, 2012 5:52:12 GMT -6
Enter At Your Own Risk!! If I ever see that sign at Havana, you can bet, I will turn around and not race there! Bantam32 is 100% correct!
(quote); Being an outlaw track doesnt mean cars wont go through the same scrutiny as a sanctioned track. Im sure cars will have to meet the same requirements as a sanctioned track. Bullshzzz!! ' I57 inspection , does your car start in gear??? EVERYONE SAYS,,,,,'NOPE'!! YOUR GOOD TO GO!! TERRA HAUTE IND, Where is tech?, 'Ooo your on the honor system here!! Bring in any old peice of crap you want to race, leaking oil, no wheel studs , slicks in cords, fuel line of rubber, no helmet, no bars in cars , no cages in car that at min should have at least a roll bar!! I have seen it all in these 'OUTLAW' tracks , Yeah there is a few out there that may not do that , but very few, ! You can say well that wont happen here, but guess what?? Over time it will!! PRETTY SOON YOU HAVE A TRACK THAT'S AS RUN DOWN AS THE CARS THAT RUN THERE TOO! Then after couple years, you can look back say, :Man what happened to nice track, I remember when!!
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Post by chad378t on Jun 6, 2012 6:06:49 GMT -6
"But I believe NHRA has plenty of reasons why they tech cars the way they do" [/quote]
Your right. There is $$$$......$$$$$.....and $$$$.
Most rules NHRA has are good but they go overboard on many. Like shield recerts. Just because a track is outlaw does not mean cars don't have tech or rules. Nor does being NHRA mean that rules are enforced. I've been to NHRA tracks that don't tech at all and idependants that are tough. I57 comes to mind. Hell of a track and you won't find a better program or system.
I'm not in favor of a US41 track where anything goes. If that happens....I'll go elsewhere. But, if tech still exists & the track stays prepped & safe...I'll come. I'd love to see more tracks leave NHRA. I do know that Scotty Richardson is working on a really cool sportsman only "grassroots" deal to help draw racers.
Need something.....NHRA doesn't care about sportsman racers after the checks clear.
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Post by bobg on Jun 6, 2012 7:48:36 GMT -6
There's nothing wrong with a track being an "Outlaw Track" as long as the Tech person does a decent job with safety rules. Your right NHRA and SFI has made it a money game selling stickers and tags.
It's nuts that you can build your own chassis or weld a roll bar on your dragster that will save your life in a crash but you can't build your own flexplate shield.
The cost of chassis certification and license fee's has doubled in the past few years because they know the racer will pay it if he wants to race.
An item in your car just expired so you have to go spend money in these bad economic times to replace it, NHRA and SFI offers no grace period. Items such as seat belts that look like brand new or a window net. It was good last week but junk next week.
There is no expiration on SFI 3.2-A/5 fire jackets and pants, gloves, neck colars (yet) but seat belts expire every 2 years. Trans shields expire every 5 years. Whats wrong with the Tech Official looking at the car and passing it because things look right and the cars equipment looks to be in good condition. If the seatbelts for example look worn out or faded, or if any other equipment looks to be worn out, tell the driver to get new ones.
Outlaw Track or not... Every racer should make his car as safe as possible using the right parts in the first place, the track Tech guy should be able to determine if it's installed correctly and the car is safe. I've been to a few Outlaw Tracks and seen some very good quality cars running there. In most cases the cars that run at Outlaw Tracks will for the most part pass tech at sanctioned tracks too.
"Outlaw Track" doesn't mean it's ok to break all the rules, it means the track is non sanctioned.
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Post by owenjack on Jun 6, 2012 7:48:54 GMT -6
They call it outlaw for a reason. No rules, no safety, no responsibility. If someone wants to kill themselves in a POS that is their problem BUT... when they cross the center line and take me or my kid out it's a whole new problem. Everyone get a history book and remember why NHRA was founded in the first place.
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Post by bobg on Jun 6, 2012 7:56:54 GMT -6
"Outlaw Tracks" such as George Rays place in Arkansas that has NO RULES and NO INSURANCE is quite different than a Non Sanctioned Track that adopts NHRA safety rules. Just because the non sanctioned track may not require the racer to have current SFI tags on his equipment or a competition License don't mean it's unsafe. If you feel the other racer has a car that's unsafe, you should tell the track manager or tech person. The biggest issue is that the track has race insurance
Ther are a lot of non sanctioned tracks around the country that run great programs. Maybe "Outlaw" is the wrong word to use.
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