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Post by problemchild on Jan 29, 2016 9:01:11 GMT -6
has anyone heard if they will offer E T Is this year?
how would this suit everyone? track opens at 9 am, open time runs from 9:30 till 12:30, time runs by class/shootout at 1 pm, elims start at 2 pm.
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Post by stevemaas on Jan 29, 2016 10:08:09 GMT -6
Open time runs is not a good idea in my opinion. Every professional test n tuner will be hotlapping. Creates a bottleneck
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Post by problemchild on Jan 29, 2016 12:08:54 GMT -6
Steve, the racers who are wanting everyone to only get 2 time runs are the ones who are running those programable boxes where they can program in a time rpm curve so their car will repeat every pass. that puts many of us at a disadvantage, besides that the track will set for 3 hours when there could be cars going down it. and as far as going up Friday nite for T n T, how many racers have to work that evening and are not able to get off for that? not everyone is self employed or retired.
what is the difference between a bottleneck caused by a few guys hotlapping during open time runs and setting in staging for 15 to 20 minutes when time runs are done by class??? NOTHING! CCD tried having open time runs and then having one official time run, do not recall hearing any complaints.
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Post by jeremy341a on Jan 29, 2016 13:46:18 GMT -6
Steve, the racers who are wanting everyone to only get 2 time runs are the ones who are running those programable boxes where they can program in a time rpm curve so their car will repeat every pass. If your car won't repeat how would more time runs help you?
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Post by 358t on Jan 29, 2016 14:33:42 GMT -6
No dog in this fight since CID is not my home track. But are you implying those with consistent cars must be using illegal ignitions? Just because someone has a more consistent car than another person doesn't mean they are cheating. Most likely it means that person did a better job and building and tweaking/tuning it to be a consistent car. The more runs we get the better informed a person should be when adjusting their car/combo to be consistent. So I get the desire to get more cracks at the track. I even get the desire to feel like you got your money's worth at the track. I just don't get the accusations of cheating.... or those who make runs down the race track and then don't analyze the results in an effort change things to make their program better. If a person just wants to make passes down the track without using the results to make a better bracket car/driver then maybe a test and tune event would be a better choice than a bracket race.
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Post by problemchild on Jan 29, 2016 16:46:16 GMT -6
Steve, the racers who are wanting everyone to only get 2 time runs are the ones who are running those programable boxes where they can program in a time rpm curve so their car will repeat every pass. If your car won't repeat how would more time runs help you? more time runs equals more info to work with to try and make your car repeat, many of us do not have the sensors to collect data on the run, all we have is our time slip. what was the engine temp on launch? what was it at 60 ft? what was it in the traps? more time runs also means more seat time to help you get the feel of the car, and figure out how well the car does or does not react on the starting line.
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Post by 358t on Jan 29, 2016 17:19:48 GMT -6
Are you implying a data recorder is a consistent cars advantage now? I had one for a few years. It can trick you into chasing ghosts if you are not careful. Next thing you know you are not putting your concentration/focus where it needs to be. They can help but if you don't know how to decipher the data they can make things worse. Usually the best tool is knowing how to take what you hear and feel along with someone video taping the launch, and knowing the conditions (weather/track) and make the correct decisions to make it better. That same skill set also helps make split second decisions on the track during an elimination pass.
Scott
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Post by problemchild on Jan 29, 2016 20:29:59 GMT -6
Scott, your seat of the pants feel of the car and the info from your data recorder could give you a slight advantage over my seat of the pants feel of my car, as long as you do not over think, in getting our cars to be consistent. you have another advantage if you have someone who can video record your pass, I seldom have anyone with me to do that and have to hope someone does record the pass and posts it on facebook or youtube. I might not be able to see that video for 2 or 3 day, so it's of no help to me that day. even a picture of the launch would help, IF, IF I can see it that day.
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Post by 358t on Jan 29, 2016 21:26:19 GMT -6
I won't disagree that a data recorder can be a very slight advantage. But I will say they are overrated for dialing a car in. They are better suited to help find a problem that developes after the fact. Fwiw, when I had one I didn't look at the data while at the track as it is a distraction. I looked at the data during the week between races. That said, this 4 link dragster I got now doesn't have one and I found that video played in slow motion or frame by frame of the launch to be much more useful. My wife would use her iphone (not a fancy hi speed camera) and focus on the rear of the car so I could see what the tire, chassis and suspension was doing. We'd email the video to myslelf so I could look at it on a computer. From there an educated decision can be made if there is an understanding of the dynamics of what is happening. It also helps you learn to take what you feel/hear and learn to apply it without video. This 4 link dragster fought me for a while as it originally had a more powerful big block in it. But that wasn't all of it... another problem was in the trans and another was the slicks (less than a year old but junk). Or other nights I fought a bad spark plug but I could feel/hear the engine have the occasional miss. Anyway, the determination paid off though. Several times this year others were having troubles with the track or whatever and mine was going right down broadway. It's got an old school 7AL2 ignition box and no datarecorder. I suppose an ignition with an adjustable launch retard would give me more options but for a simple shock adjustment or air pressure adjustment usually gets the job done once everything is working correctly.
If you have a car that doesn't repeat well or well enough then you need one or two good videos and you will have a mountain of information to work off of. I'm thinking you have a buddy or girlfriend or wife that could do it for ya?
Scott
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Post by jeremy341a on Jan 30, 2016 0:20:59 GMT -6
My nova has no data recorder. It has a 6al box, tach(no playback), water temp, oil pressure gauge. No recording of runs It won a few rounds this year. Everyone that thinks the new gadgets are a magic bullet are mistaken.
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Post by chad378t on Jan 30, 2016 8:03:15 GMT -6
Steve, the racers who are wanting everyone to only get 2 time runs are the ones who are running those programable boxes where they can program in a time rpm curve so their car will repeat every pass. that puts many of us at a disadvantage, besides that the track will set for 3 hours when there could be cars going down it. That statement right there proves two things...one you never actually compete and only test. Two- you put yourself at a disadvantage of you actually did. I'll guarantee there are not 4 cars running CID with data loggers. Those of us who do travel and race bigger events understand that they assist in getting a car dialed in but we can and are just as good as they are (just takes more time). And by the way....per rules...the recording features cannot be used during competition. I don't like open time runs. Those three hours you say the track is sitting...Mitch is working like hell on it. He cleans it end to end from Friday night and the. Sprays the hell out of it. Friday is fun night. Sat is game day.
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Post by chad378t on Jan 30, 2016 8:07:12 GMT -6
My nova has no data recorder. It has a 6al box, tach(no playback), water temp, oil pressure gauge. No recording of runs It won a few rounds this year. Everyone that thinks the new gadgets are a magic bullet are mistaken. Only people who think that way are those who don't compete consistently enough to know where they stand. Seat/track time in competition is king. Even a consistent car is only part of the battle. Would you agree?
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Post by seeingred on Jan 30, 2016 8:27:23 GMT -6
My nova has no data recorder. It has a 6al box, tach(no playback), water temp, oil pressure gauge. No recording of runs It won a few rounds this year. Everyone that thinks the new gadgets are a magic bullet are mistaken. Only people who think that way are those who don't compete consistently enough to know where they stand. Seat/track time in competition is king. Even a consistent car is only part of the battle. Would you agree? It doesn't make one bit of difference if the car can repeat round for round or pass after pass if the driver can't , it doesn't matter if you give me a million dollar car with all of the electronics that are available if you don't stage the car in the same spot , the same rpm and same brake pressure same shift point it won't repeat any way . The first thing that needs to be consistent is the driver ,this is where open time runs help the lesser drivers ( I'm one of the lesser drivers ) they can get more seat time with the same cost and travel time .
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Post by chad378t on Jan 30, 2016 9:13:44 GMT -6
And there are defined days at all tracks for those open time runs. I'd much more prefer to have he extra track prep time when I'm there to pay the higher entry fee to race. CID gives you 2 plus the shootout. The. They start again after like 2nd round. 6-7 runs is easily done.
Time runs allow you to Practice the tree and maybe spot dropping but you still need competition time to learn how to judge other cars and the finish, to see a staggered tree and most important...deal with the pressure. They are not the total answer for the driver. More for dialing in a car. I can honestly say that for me...competing at Cordova on a regular weekend was not even the same as running the big $$ race there. It takes experience at those races too.
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92ga
Full Member
Posts: 132
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Post by 92ga on Jan 30, 2016 11:23:15 GMT -6
Scott, your seat of the pants feel of the car and the info from your data recorder could give you a slight advantage over my seat of the pants feel of my car, as long as you do not over think, in getting our cars to be consistent. you have another advantage if you have someone who can video record your pass, I seldom have anyone with me to do that and have to hope someone does record the pass and posts it on facebook or youtube. I might not be able to see that video for 2 or 3 day, so it's of no help to me that day. even a picture of the launch would help, IF, IF I can see it that day. Then you aren't prepared. Who's fault is that? Open time runs on race day sucks, street tire cars tracking water out of the box makes it so even the best car can't repeat runs. Want open test and tune go Friday nights.
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