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Post by eticket on Jan 15, 2014 10:45:32 GMT -6
I'm switching the Altered over to 16v as the 1 time we were out the old 12v seemed not to happy turning over the new motor. I was wondering what brand of battery people are using and experience had with them as there is a pretty considerable range in prices. I'm currently looking at "Turbo Start" and "XS Power" packages with the charger. The weight is comparable to my 10yr old red top Optima 31lbs. Also how has your experience been with power. I won't be running an alternator but the good side is my fuel pump is mech. so I only have they delay box, trans brake, data logger and depending on the temp. a water pump.
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Post by 548h on Jan 15, 2014 12:00:34 GMT -6
Get a good 12V battery such as an Optima. Install a racing alternator such as a Powermaster or East Coast. Then, if needed, install a starter that can handle the load such as a Powermaster.
The alternator will supply plenty of current when needed and maintain a consistent 14V during operation.
Not sold on the 16V hype. The idea is to have 14V without an alternator. But you have the huge expense of the battery itself and the special charger. Plus, without an alternator the battery voltage is constantly changing/decreasing until it gets recharged.
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Post by eticket on Jan 15, 2014 12:11:22 GMT -6
I'm currently running the Tilton starter, Powermaster mini.alt. but my Optima is 10yr. old. With the new 632 the 12v has a hard time turning it over. Looking for more cranking speed plus I heard it helps with the MSD.
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Post by p518 on Jan 15, 2014 14:22:22 GMT -6
Get a good 12V battery such as an Optima. Install a racing alternator such as a Powermaster or East Coast. Then, if needed, install a starter that can handle the load such as a Powermaster. The alternator will supply plenty of current when needed and maintain a consistent 14V during operation. Not sold on the 16V hype. The idea is to have 14V without an alternator. But you have the huge expense of the battery itself and the special charger. Plus, without an alternator the battery voltage is constantly changing/decreasing until it gets recharged. What do you think of those starter savers that are advertised in the back of National Dragster? |
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Post by 548h on Jan 15, 2014 20:59:16 GMT -6
I'm currently running the Tilton starter, Powermaster mini.alt. but my Optima is 10yr. old. With the new 632 the 12v has a hard time turning it over. Looking for more cranking speed plus I heard it helps with the MSD. Test the battery. It may just be whipped. I have a 15:1 598 BBC and no problems cranking the engine. |
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Post by 548h on Jan 15, 2014 21:04:16 GMT -6
Get a good 12V battery such as an Optima. Install a racing alternator such as a Powermaster or East Coast. Then, if needed, install a starter that can handle the load such as a Powermaster. The alternator will supply plenty of current when needed and maintain a consistent 14V during operation. Not sold on the 16V hype. The idea is to have 14V without an alternator. But you have the huge expense of the battery itself and the special charger. Plus, without an alternator the battery voltage is constantly changing/decreasing until it gets recharged. What do you think of those starter savers that are advertised in the back of National Dragster? Are you talking about the MSD Starter Saver? I think they work great when needed. It's an ignition retard while cranking to be used with MSD ignitions and locked out timing. It takes away cylinder pressure during cranking by retarding ignition timing. Therefore making it easier to crank the engine. As soon as it starts the timing goes back to normal. Read the instructions when you install one you have to adjust the timing. It will offset it about 4 degrees. |
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Post by p518 on Jan 16, 2014 5:49:09 GMT -6
I think you may be talking about the MSD start/retard box. I thought East Coast Electric made a small unit that mounted directly to the starter and was wired there. Could be wrong. I need to go look it up again. This is it, if this link works you will see it: ecae.com/ |
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Post by 548h on Jan 16, 2014 8:40:08 GMT -6
I think you may be talking about the MSD start/retard box. I thought East Coast Electric made a small unit that mounted directly to the starter and was wired there. Could be wrong. I need to go look it up again. This is it, if this link works you will see it: ecae.com/That appears to be a remote solenoid (similar to Ford) to help reduce the voltage drop to the "S" terminal of the starter while cranking. This is a common accepted practice in our shop. However, we do not mount the solenoid right on the starter. We remote mount the solenoid elsewhere and then make a short jumper at the starter from the battery cable stud to the "S" terminal. Then we run the wire from the N/S switch to the remote starter solenoid "S" terminal. Now the battery cable to the starter is only hot when you push the start button. This is also a safety feature by not having a large battery cable with constant battery voltage potential near the headers, etc. |
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Post by sg3526 on Jan 16, 2014 10:44:55 GMT -6
Looks as if it may be some type of capacitor used to give the starter a little extra hit when you hit the switch. If it's a remote solenoid it's about a retarded place to mount it. The whole purpose of mounting an extra solenoid is to get it away from all the heat of the engine and the headers especially if you have to run a diaper and the starter is enclosed in the diaper creating more heat.
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Post by eticket on Jan 16, 2014 11:27:55 GMT -6
My 7AL3 has a spot on it marked "start retard" that when wired pulls the timing back 25 degrees and when the engine reaches 1300 RPM it brings the timing back. I tried it and it didn't seem to make much difference with the starting. Timing is set at 32 on this engine which is 2 less than the old 565. I'm just waiting for it not to start in the staging lanes which is why I'm looking at 16v. I did find a 16v with 3 posts so you can wire your 12v alt to it and it has 1075 cranking amps but they don't give a weight. Either way I go 12 or 16 I need a new battery. 10 yrs is a pretty long time even though I've usually kept a battery tender on it. Need to figure out something soon.
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Post by sg3526 on Jan 16, 2014 15:30:52 GMT -6
My 7AL3 has a spot on it marked "start retard" that when wired pulls the timing back 25 degrees and when the engine reaches 1300 RPM it brings the timing back. I tried it and it didn't seem to make much difference with the starting. Timing is set at 32 on this engine which is 2 less than the old 565. I'm just waiting for it not to start in the staging lanes which is why I'm looking at 16v. I did find a 16v with 3 posts so you can wire your 12v alt to it and it has 1075 cranking amps but they don't give a weight. Either way I go 12 or 16 I need a new battery. 10 yrs is a pretty long time even though I've usually kept a battery tender on it. Need to figure out something soon. I run 2 AC Delco 950 CCA 78-72 batteries in my car, 1) it puts some weight on the front end to keep it from reaching for the stars. 2) I have always tried to run 2 batteries, just seems to start easier and with the 2 batteries there is some reserve left in them. I tried running one in my Roadster but that came back to bite me in the butt at Topeka even though it was an Optima Red top and relatively new, it still gave me issues trying to start on occassion. Put a second red top in it problem solved. |
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Post by eticket on Jan 16, 2014 16:06:02 GMT -6
Would love 2 batteries but no room. Te nose has the data logger, fire bottle radiator and the rear has 1 battery, trans cooler. The Bantam has a short rear deck. I would love to put a battery up front and take some of the weight off the rear. Bickel wanted me to move my engine forward a few but that would have been another whole can of worms I was not willing to deal with. The battery I'm leaning towards is a Rock 16v that has 1050 cca with 85 min. reserve and is 3 post which I believe will allow me to connect my alt. to it. The combo including charger is $660.00. Need to think long and hard about it.
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Post by 548h on Jan 16, 2014 17:35:44 GMT -6
Whatever you buy for a battery do yourself a favor and stay away from "regular" car batteries. They have leaded plates in them that don't like all the vibrations and g-forces of a drag car. Get a gel cel battery. Or like we call the Optima a "jelly roll". They are not affected by such forces and last much longer and are more reliable in a drag car.
If your entire starting/ignition system is healthy you may be having a mechanical issue. Such as a carb or head/intake gasket leaking into a cylinder (fluids wont compress like air will). Maybe something is getting tight in the engine/trans. Don't let it go and turn into something ugly.
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Post by eticket on Jan 17, 2014 5:25:30 GMT -6
Just had a complete over haul rings bearings etc. Run a dual Terminator set up and spin the motor before starting to make sure no fuel in the cyl. My last engine did the same thing cranks great with out the ignition switched on but the min. you flip the switch. It has always fired but when it hits compression it seems to strugle to get over the hill. My door car had 2 batteries and never really had this issue. I didn't calc. the new comp. ratio after I had the heads dressed. I think it is around 15.5. Hence the thought to get a 16v to get the omph to get over the comp. hill. As a side note what makes me think about the battery is that when I'm at the trailer I use the charger set at boost to start the car and it spins fine. Unfortunately when in the lanes I'm strictly on the battery. I did check and the Rock racing battery is like the Optima and is sealed and can be mounted in any position.
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Post by 548h on Jan 17, 2014 9:39:04 GMT -6
Just had a complete over haul rings bearings etc. Run a dual Terminator set up and spin the motor before starting to make sure no fuel in the cyl. My last engine did the same thing cranks great with out the ignition switched on but the min. you flip the switch. It has always fired but when it hits compression it seems to strugle to get over the hill. My door car had 2 batteries and never really had this issue. I didn't calc. the new comp. ratio after I had the heads dressed. I think it is around 15.5. Hence the thought to get a 16v to get the omph to get over the comp. hill. As a side note what makes me think about the battery is that when I'm at the trailer I use the charger set at boost to start the car and it spins fine. Unfortunately when in the lanes I'm strictly on the battery. I did check and the Rock racing battery is like the Optima and is sealed and can be mounted in any position. If it cranks fine without the ignition on then retarding should help. Maybe the ignition retard you have doesn't work or is not wired properly? Have you checked with a timing light that it is working? We stock the Powermaster #9004 starter for Chevys. It's rated at 180 lbs/ft torque. It's what I have on my engine. It's priced well and works fine. They also make #9400 rated at 250 lbs/ft torque and 4.4:1 gear reduction (vs the 3.73:1 on the 9004) for a little more money. They are both of similar mounting possibilities. It is nice to be able to rotate the motor/solenoid, on door cars especially, for header clearance. Battery cables should be minimum 2 gage. Connections should be double checked, ends soldered, etc. Ground plane needs to be verified. Ground cable to frame from battery. Ground cable to engine block from frame. Good clean, tight connections. |
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